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  Author    Mini Jem door windows  (currently 11,005 views)
Jeremy Harrison
Posted on: April 4th, 2010, 07:11:52 Quote Report to Moderator
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I'm new to kit car building. My barn-find Jem is progressing well at the body shop and I'm now trying to work out how the door windows work. They seem to unlock from the outside by turning the key in the glove box type latches. The glass then simply drops down the aluminium channels into the door. There is no sealing of any type for the glass, that's probably why I found so much stuff in the door bottoms when I took the trim panels off, because there was a couple of inches of "soil" with plants growing in it down there! Once sitting in the car with the door glass down and the door trim on, there is no way of holding the glass in place once it is lifted back up. I did find a couple of perished rubber wedges, so I suppose the previous owner used these. There must be a far more satisfactory way of sorting out and sealing the moving door glasses these days. How do others manage to do this? Change to the early Mini sliding horizontal glass method? Any help at this stage would be most appreciated before the doors have been finally fettled for painting. Has anyone changed the  square section aluminium frames for something better? I will be changing all the door glasses and the rear windows for an "acrylic type", so anything is possible. Also what type and thickness of "acrylic" is the best to use?

Last modified April 4th, 2010, 15:50:36 by Jeremy Harrison
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Richard Brady
Posted on: April 4th, 2010, 18:49:00 Quote Report to Moderator
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Hmm, a mini with window boxes, probably not that uncommon!
Hi Jeremy, many years ago I used the rear window winders from an 1100 ("rears" because of less wear & tear). These days I see no reason why you could'nt adapt electric window openers.

For door opening and locking I cut Marina door handles in ( yes I know they're ugly, it was a long time ago). To get around the problem of linking the outer door mechanism to the standard mini "doorlatch" on the inside, used a piece of brake piping with stainless steel stranded wire inside, "C" shaped it popped out of the end of the door around the window frame and back in, hopefully you'll find a more elegant solution!

Rear quarter windows don't have to be acrylic, you can take the originals (or templates) to a replacement windscreen company and ask them to cut you laminated glass ones.
Hope this helps,
Richard
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admin
Posted on: April 4th, 2010, 19:54:33 Quote Report to Moderator
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Jeremy, you have discovered the special security feature of the Mk.2 Jem - no door handles! You open the window and reach in to open the door from the inside. For that reason you can't have anything to lock the window in the up position because you could then lock yourself out.

The aluminium window frames should have glazing channels in them. You can get the channel from Phoenix Supplies. It can be very tight when first installed but will ease with time.

The Mk.1 Jem did have sliding windows like the early Minis.
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Jeremy Harrison
Posted on: April 5th, 2010, 06:54:22 Quote Report to Moderator
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Richard, thanks for the info. I recently sold a GTM Coupe which someone else had built and which had been fitted with external Marina door handles , but I want to keep the doors original and the glazing as simple as possible, so I don't want to fit electric window winders. The rear hinging side window glasses are both still in good condition, so I'll keep them glazed as they are and just use acrylic for the rear window, which was modified to the opening hatch type by Fellpoint after the car had an accident in 1973.
A week AFTER I bought the barn-find Jem, I was given lots of photos of the car by the previous owner, showing the damage which had been caused when it was hit at the rear by a lorry in 1973 and of the subsequent repairs being done at the Fellpoint factory consisting of fitting 3/4 of a new front and a complete rear section, which, I think forum members would like to see. However, even though I have followed the easy instructions to attach photos, for some reason, I don't seem able to transfer them from my computer to the forum. I'm obviously getting too old! Perhaps someone could explain where I'm going wrong?
Dear Admin, I also have a Frogeye Sprite which has no external door handles. If the hardtop/soft top is on, I simply slide open the rear section of the plexyglass fitted to the sidescreens to gain access to the interior handle.
There are no window channels fitted to the aluminium sliding window guides on my Jem. When I open the window latch on the door, the window drops with a thud into the door. Am I correct in thinking that it is it simply an interference-fit which keeps the original down-sliding door windows in the up position when driving in the car? If they are quite tight, as you say, then that would be fine and I'll just fit the glazing channels to keep them as original as possible.
I wonder why the Mini type sliding windows were changed to the drop type, when the Mini type would seem to be better? Was it simply a case of being able to lock the car? I have never worried about locking my Frogeye or any other soft top cars because if someone realy wants to get into it, they will.  

Last modified April 5th, 2010, 18:46:11 by Jeremy Harrison
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admin
Posted on: April 5th, 2010, 17:08:00 Quote Report to Moderator
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I guess the windows were changed because the aluminium frames looked better and the doors were easier to make. The Mk.1 had fibreglass surrounding the window and the top channel had to be staight and parallel to the bottom channel, so did not match the roof line. I thought the sliding windows and large door bins were one of the best features of the early Mini, and changing to wind-ups was a retrograde step.

I've now put 1091 on the Mini Jem Gallery. The preceeding one (1090) does in fact have Morris Marina door handles.

Sorry about the upload problem. You should be able to drag and drop a file onto the "Attach File" field where it says "drop file here", but note the size restriction. I could make it bigger but I'd rather not have very big images on the forum. If it doesn't work just email me the photos.
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admin
Posted on: April 5th, 2010, 20:06:19 Quote Report to Moderator
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Jeremy writes: "Here are some of the photos I was given AFTER I had bought the Mini Jem. Included is an estimate from Malcolm Fell for the repairs which I think many club members will find interesting. His prices then are rather different to the prices charged these days!"







I couldn't make the estimate legible, but the total was £387.54 including VAT.





Last modified April 5th, 2010, 20:19:17 by admin
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Jeremy Harrison
Posted on: April 6th, 2010, 06:42:03 Quote Report to Moderator
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As you can see, there was severe damage to the car in 1973. The Estimate for repairs from Malcolm Fell was:
Mouldings:
Nose section & underskirt & driver's side wing £20
Rear moulding £35
Rear screen & fitting £17
Rear floor section £6
Materials:
Windscreen £22
Radiator 19.50
Perspex rear screen £6.50
Rubber and chrome strip for windscreen and rear screen £3
Carpeting £7
Petrol tank and locking cap £14
Head lining £17
Number plates £3
Labour charges:
Fibreglass £60
Mechanics £50
Transport to factory £20
Complete rub down and re-spray of whole car £60
Total £361+ £26.14 VAT
Total estimate for repair £387.54, which seems very reasonable now, but which was quite a lot in those days.

In the last photo, one of the new rear wing extensions can be seen which were fitted at the factory. I do not want them and I have carefully removed them. If anyone would like these genuine parts for your Jem, you can have them free of charge, but you'd need to pick them up from my home.
The car was repaired very well by the factory and it is only with stripping it to the bare shell that those repairs become aparent. I am having the whole shell restored and strengthened where necessary, so it should be as good as new very soon.
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Tim Neal
Posted on: April 12th, 2010, 19:41:37 Quote Report to Moderator
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My windows are held up by the friction of the window in the felt strip in the frame. But I had to get new side windows made and got them made in 4mm glass which is fractionally thicker than the original windows, so now they are tight more than anything.
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Jeremy Harrison
Posted on: April 13th, 2010, 06:52:40 Quote Report to Moderator
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I have decided to refurbish the original window frames and use acrylic for the door windows and rear screen. I have found that the passenger door has a glass window and some old felt in the runners so it needs a gentle push to get it up or down. The driver's door has been changed to perspex at some time and there is no felt in the runners, causing it to drop like a stone when released. I had my old perspex rear screen measured and it is 5mm, so, assuming I can get suitable felt channel for the door windows, I intend to have all the acrylic pieces made with that size material. I'm going to the kit-car show at Stoneleigh over the May-day bank holiday to see exactly what felt channels are available and how others seal their cars from the elements these days.
I have also had a lot of trouble fitting a suitable bulge in the bonnet. It sounds so simple, but has proved to be rather difficult. I decided that this should be done before the car was stripped and with the original 850 engine in place. I fitted my 45 DCOE to the rusty 850 engine and told the bodyshop to make sure the bonnet bulge cleared the 45 DCOE throttle linkage. This was done and it looked great. However, when the new front sub-frame complete with 1380 engine was fitted to the body to make sure everything fits (gear linkage etc) before removing it again for painting, I found that with the 1380 in place, it is a MUCH taller engine than the 850, so the bonnet now catches the rocker cover, thermostat housing and the throttle linkage, so all that work on the bonnet has been an expensive waste of time and I'm having to cut it all out and fit a much larger bulge to ensure clearance. In hindsight, the bonnet should have been the LAST part of the bodywork to be fettled and I don't suppose this will be the last of my problems with this re-build!    

Last modified April 13th, 2010, 06:54:12 by Jeremy Harrison
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Olly Lewis
Posted on: April 13th, 2010, 12:35:45 Quote Report to Moderator
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Hello Jeremy,

Just a thought to save you some bother, you could take a leaf out of the air cooled fraternity and space the back edge of the bonnet up about 25/30mm to help clearance (and cooling), also as a possible styling que if you liked the look!?

Olly
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Jeremy Harrison
Posted on: April 13th, 2010, 13:46:36 Quote Report to Moderator
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Hi Olly, I want to keep it looking as original as possible. I have seen lots of photos with the bonnets propped up at the windscreen end, but I think it spoils the line of the car. Each car seems to have a different bonnet bulge too.
Also, I'm minded not to re-fit the mini type heater. It was placed on the passenger side of the tunnel and did not have any dash top screen clearing vents. I will do without a heater but I wonder if anyone has tried the small 12 volt heated blowers which seem to be readily available these days and which could be placed on the top of the dash to clear the fogged-up screen in damp weather?
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admin
Posted on: April 13th, 2010, 20:36:45 Quote Report to Moderator
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There are at least three different bonnets. The Mk.1 bonnet has a different outline (bigger), and there are two different size bulges for the Mk.2 and later cars. The small bulge is OK for small block engines (up to 1100) but you need the larger bulge for 1275s.
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Jeremy Harrison
Posted on: April 13th, 2010, 21:22:19 Quote Report to Moderator
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I have bought another bonnet vent on e-bay. It is called an XXL 11, which measures 47 cm wide, 50 cm long and is 4 cm high. I have measured the bonnet and I think this one will do the job. Photos will follow.....eventually!!

Last modified April 13th, 2010, 21:23:11 by Jeremy Harrison
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Tim Neal
Posted on: April 24th, 2010, 08:38:45 Quote Report to Moderator
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Quoted from Jeremy Harrison, posted April 13th, 2010, 21:22:19 at here
I have bought another bonnet vent on e-bay. It is called an XXL 11, which measures 47 cm wide, 50 cm long and is 4 cm high. I have measured the bonnet and I think this one will do the job. Photos will follow.....eventually!!




I solved the problem by modifying the rocker cover.....
we moved the filler to the back on a modified spout and cut the top down by about 1cm.
Ill take a photo of it later the week and try to remember to post it for you.
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admin
Posted on: April 25th, 2010, 21:00:36 Quote Report to Moderator
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You are aware that some rocker covers have taller filler necks than others?
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Tim Neal
Posted on: May 2nd, 2010, 20:46:15 Quote Report to Moderator
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Quoted from admin, posted April 25th, 2010, 21:00:36 at here
You are aware that some rocker covers have taller filler necks than others?



yes.....but the height of the rocker cover it self was even to high!
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Nick Evans
Posted on: May 9th, 2010, 21:48:28 Quote Report to Moderator
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On my Jem I had similar clearance issues with the oil filler neck when I fitted the 1275 engine, so I fitted a standard steel 60's rocker cover and gently smacked the front of the neck with a large hammer. This depressed the filler cap just enough to miss the bonnet.

I had similar clearance issues with the thermostat housing and heater tap. So used a thermostat housing off an MG Midget. It's the same stud spacing but a lot flatter. The Heater tap was cut off, and I had intended using an inline heater tap off a later mini, but sold the car before sorting it.

In this pic you can see the Midget thermostat housing, and you can just make out the kink in the rocker cover at the front of the oil filler neck.


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admin
Posted on: May 10th, 2010, 18:31:54 Quote Report to Moderator
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I think you can use a Metro type alloy rocker cover because the filler is in the middle where there's a bit more space.
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admin
Posted on: June 13th, 2010, 22:12:00
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Posted on behalf of Jeremy:

The Mini Jem bonnet is finally finished. It now has a double,
forward-facing scoop, which clears both the rocker cover and the 45 DCOE
carb. It is painted in  BMC Iris Blue and fits correctly in position.

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admin
Posted on: June 13th, 2010, 22:13:41
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admin
Posted on: June 13th, 2010, 22:14:18
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admin
Posted on: June 13th, 2010, 22:15:06
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Nick Harland
Posted on: April 5th, 2012, 21:59:38 Quote Report to Moderator
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i like this! Very classy.
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Piffer94
Posted on: February 8th, 2017, 15:14:33 Quote Report to Moderator
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I have read posts but I didn't see a reference for the lock door for the windows ? Which one did you use guys ? It is the same for the bonnet ones ?

Last modified February 8th, 2017, 15:15:51 by Piffer94
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mike brown
Posted on: February 8th, 2017, 17:57:36 Quote Report to Moderator
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The window lock is normally a panel lock (as a lot of people use for the bonnet). The idea is the lever part of the lock swings under the lifted window stopping it from being dropped.
Mike
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Allan_Scott
Posted on: February 8th, 2017, 22:04:08 Quote Report to Moderator
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Quoted from Jeremy Harrison, posted April 6th, 2010, 06:42:03 at here
As you can see, there was severe damage to the car in 1973. The Estimate for repairs from Malcolm Fell was:
Mouldings:
Nose section & underskirt & driver's side wing £20
Rear moulding £35
Rear screen & fitting £17
Rear floor section £6
Materials:
Windscreen £22
Radiator 19.50
Perspex rear screen £6.50
Rubber and chrome strip for windscreen and rear screen £3
Carpeting £7
Petrol tank and locking cap £14
Head lining £17
Number plates £3
Labour charges:
Fibreglass £60
Mechanics £50
Transport to factory £20
Complete rub down and re-spray of whole car £60
Total £361+ £26.14 VAT
Total estimate for repair £387.54, which seems very reasonable now, but which was quite a lot in those days.

In the last photo, one of the new rear wing extensions can be seen which were fitted at the factory. I do not want them and I have carefully removed them. If anyone would like these genuine parts for your Jem, you can have them free of charge, but you'd need to pick them up from my home.
The car was repaired very well by the factory and it is only with stripping it to the bare shell that those repairs become aparent. I am having the whole shell restored and strengthened where necessary, so it should be as good as new very soon.


Wow i got my shell off Malcolm in 1975 for £432 +8% vat so it was an expensive repair you should have got a new shell!
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Piffer94
Posted on: February 9th, 2017, 19:30:39 Quote Report to Moderator
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Quoted from mike brown, posted February 8th, 2017, 17:57:36 at here
The window lock is normally a panel lock (as a lot of people use for the bonnet). The idea is the lever part of the lock swings under the lifted window stopping it from being dropped.
Mike



I understand but do you have a reference for it ? for example from an another car or whatever ?
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mike brown
Posted on: February 9th, 2017, 19:35:51 Quote Report to Moderator
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This is the type I used on my last jem.
Panel Lock with Two Keys from Merlin Motorsport
https://www.merlinmotorsport.co.uk/p/panel-lock-complete-with-two-keys-pnl-lck
Mike
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John_Campbell
Posted on: February 25th, 2017, 11:05:23 Quote Report to Moderator
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Hi Jeremy, I used the same locks as Mike and if you're careful you can disassemble the mechanism insert a key and file off the excess retaining metal, which allows you to use the door keys or have both bonnet locks on one key. Saves having four different keys.
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mike brown
Posted on: February 25th, 2017, 11:23:30 Quote Report to Moderator
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The keys have a code on them which allows you to match the locks up to the same key. You should be able to buy them keyed alike from places like RS etc.
Mike
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Piffer94
Posted on: June 5th, 2018, 10:02:10 Quote Report to Moderator
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Quoted from mike brown, posted February 9th, 2017, 19:35:51 at here
This is the type I used on my last jem.
Panel Lock with Two Keys from Merlin Motorsport
https://www.merlinmotorsport.co.uk/p/panel-lock-complete-with-two-keys-pnl-lck
Mike



Mike didn't you have issue with the locks ? I've just receive it but there are not quarter-turn but half-turn.
I've fitted it on a door but when I spin the key, I can't release the key because the cam ends on the interior door.

Last modified June 5th, 2018, 10:03:47 by Piffer94
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mike brown
Posted on: June 5th, 2018, 16:43:25 Quote Report to Moderator
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I can't remember whether they were 1/4 or 1/2 turn. They were mounted close to the window which should give enough room but if not you maybe able to cut the latch part down to clear the door but still catch the window.
Mike
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Piffer94
Posted on: June 7th, 2018, 08:05:08 Quote Report to Moderator
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Ok I'll try and let you know. But I'm not sure that will work.
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admin
Posted on: June 11th, 2018, 10:50:26 Quote Report to Moderator
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As far as I can remember there's a disc inside the lock with cut-outs that determine a) how far the barrel can turn and b) at which point(s) you can withdraw the key. You need a quarter turn.

You may need to twist or bend the cam (tongue) slightly to hold the window in the fully up position. Twisting it allows it to slide under the window more easily. Don't twist it near the square hole that locates the tongue onto the barrel as that part is very weak. I once had the bonnet blow off for that reason!

Last modified June 11th, 2018, 10:57:16 by admin
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